A crucial question that needs answering here, at least as I see it, is who is dishing out the curses? If God is still actively behind the Deuteronomic curses, then your covenantal substitutionary model remains another iteration of the penal schema. If, however, we understand the curses as the natural and destructive (thus making space for the demonic) outworking of Israel's failure to live up to its vocation, then your model is better news indeed. I'm sure you have spelled all this out before, but as someone unfamiliar with your work outside of substack (to my detriment, I'm sure), i think my point above needs clarification. Thanks
But how is *Covenantal Substitutionary Atonement* to be understood in light of hominid evolution (?) Gods self-giving covenant with humanity, goes back much, much further and deeper into the eons of time, than just the beautiful promises to Abraham. Since God’s omniscient existence is outside of linear time as we experience it, he can see the entirety of our lives all at once, just as he saw humanities rise to self-awareness and unfortunately self-destruction, from the foundation of the world. Our nihilistic angst as a social species, is replaced "substituted" with divinely conjoined and infused Resurrection. Christ completes the human journey, and overcomes the darkness of *This* world.
Did He? Does God see all of Time, outside of time? Is that necessary to declare Him as Omniscient? I wrestle with this question. I know it is common to say God is “outside of time”, but I’m not totally sure what that even means and furthermore, I’m not sure how to support that Biblically.
Here is how I’ve wondered the nature of reality is constructed: God lives within time, as time is not a created thing. It’s just a measurement. He does know how things are “generally” going to go because He knows the heart of man. But what I’m going to have for dinner next week? I don’t know. That’s not determined and God leaves that to me. He knows my heart and He a destination for who He wants me to become. He has a plan for that. But when I choose to veer from that plan, He has a new plan. Same destination, but new path, based on my choices. He will help me down that plan as I ask and allow. But He’s not a puppet master and isn’t going to force the issue.
This makes the most sense to me both logically and Biblically. But I hold this opinion with an open hand, as His ways are higher then my ways, and His thoughts than my thoughts. So I could be terribly wrong!
Completely agree Dan. Your approach sounds like a variation or blend of “Theological Compatibilism”, which is a very health spiritual position, that avoids the “Puppet Master Paradox”. The gist of my comment was more about the depth of the Substitutionary Covenant that relates to the essence and function of the Trinity itself well before humanities rise to sentience. In other words, the *Person* of the Son IS his ontological function acted out in Divine self-sacrificial Love.
I know there were restitutionary sacrifices in the Old Testament involving individuals, but weren't the sin sacrifices alway plural? As for the sins of the people?
Thanks for this. To me, this is a new and quite striking idea. Appealing. I would like more explication of how penal and covenantal substitutionary atonement can be harmonized. Do you think they can be? Sorry if that's in your post already and I'm just not grasping it. I may need to do some re-reading.
A crucial question that needs answering here, at least as I see it, is who is dishing out the curses? If God is still actively behind the Deuteronomic curses, then your covenantal substitutionary model remains another iteration of the penal schema. If, however, we understand the curses as the natural and destructive (thus making space for the demonic) outworking of Israel's failure to live up to its vocation, then your model is better news indeed. I'm sure you have spelled all this out before, but as someone unfamiliar with your work outside of substack (to my detriment, I'm sure), i think my point above needs clarification. Thanks
But how is *Covenantal Substitutionary Atonement* to be understood in light of hominid evolution (?) Gods self-giving covenant with humanity, goes back much, much further and deeper into the eons of time, than just the beautiful promises to Abraham. Since God’s omniscient existence is outside of linear time as we experience it, he can see the entirety of our lives all at once, just as he saw humanities rise to self-awareness and unfortunately self-destruction, from the foundation of the world. Our nihilistic angst as a social species, is replaced "substituted" with divinely conjoined and infused Resurrection. Christ completes the human journey, and overcomes the darkness of *This* world.
Did He? Does God see all of Time, outside of time? Is that necessary to declare Him as Omniscient? I wrestle with this question. I know it is common to say God is “outside of time”, but I’m not totally sure what that even means and furthermore, I’m not sure how to support that Biblically.
Here is how I’ve wondered the nature of reality is constructed: God lives within time, as time is not a created thing. It’s just a measurement. He does know how things are “generally” going to go because He knows the heart of man. But what I’m going to have for dinner next week? I don’t know. That’s not determined and God leaves that to me. He knows my heart and He a destination for who He wants me to become. He has a plan for that. But when I choose to veer from that plan, He has a new plan. Same destination, but new path, based on my choices. He will help me down that plan as I ask and allow. But He’s not a puppet master and isn’t going to force the issue.
This makes the most sense to me both logically and Biblically. But I hold this opinion with an open hand, as His ways are higher then my ways, and His thoughts than my thoughts. So I could be terribly wrong!
Completely agree Dan. Your approach sounds like a variation or blend of “Theological Compatibilism”, which is a very health spiritual position, that avoids the “Puppet Master Paradox”. The gist of my comment was more about the depth of the Substitutionary Covenant that relates to the essence and function of the Trinity itself well before humanities rise to sentience. In other words, the *Person* of the Son IS his ontological function acted out in Divine self-sacrificial Love.
I know there were restitutionary sacrifices in the Old Testament involving individuals, but weren't the sin sacrifices alway plural? As for the sins of the people?
Have you read "Lamb of the Free" by Rillera? Would love to hear your take on that book.
Have it in my To Read stack.
Thanks for this. To me, this is a new and quite striking idea. Appealing. I would like more explication of how penal and covenantal substitutionary atonement can be harmonized. Do you think they can be? Sorry if that's in your post already and I'm just not grasping it. I may need to do some re-reading.
Sorry Beck, it's coram Deo all the way down. The collective won't cut it. James calls it double mindedness.
Very interesting and creative. I presume you unpack this more in one or more of your books...?