I’m curious what you would make of “many are called but few are chosen.”? Or “narrow is the path that leads to salvation?” There are intimations in the NT and in the early Christian tradition that there are mysteries and understandings that come from contemplation that are not for everyone. And that has been my own experience, that if you do enough contemplation, you peer into the depths of the universe and see things that would be incomprehensible to most people.
Of course, the danger in that is that you become arrogant and think you are somehow better or above everyone else who doesn’t get it or who hasn’t put in the work that you have. The church obviously struggles with this problem throughout its history. But there’s another way of understanding it, which is that those who attain “gnosis,” are called to serve others. In other words, “to whom much is given, much is required.”
Brilliant physicists obviously understand much about the nature of the universe that is beyond the comprehension of regular people like me. And that specialized knowledge can certainly make them arrogant or elitist. But none of us would say that the attainment of that knowledge, or the effort and aptitude required to attain it, is inherently bad. Why do we feel that way when the knowledge is spiritual?
I’m an old retired pastor and I’ve never been good at contemplative prayer, or any other kind but the Lords Prayer, which I love, and the jerky requests of thanksgivings of every day life. I’m ok with that, and rely heavily on the prayers of others. I used to feel guilty about it, but not any more. If I missed out on something wonderful, we’ll that’s my loss, but it has little of nothing to do with the depth of my faith.
Thank you for the great article, perspective, and your work in trying to make this world a better place in what I’m sure is a very harsh and challenging environment
I think an interesting angle on this also is the place that the orthodox and protestant traditions have in these two approaches to salvation. Ie Theosis in orthodoxy and salvation by faith and the protestant work ethic on the other hand.
Similar to what you propose, how can these two limbs on the tree work together synergistically to enrich both and maybe even offer a hybrid approach with the two?…
I think this is true of all the spiritual disciplines… I like what my brother has said about therapy, that sometimes you need a therapist to help you identify and then remove an obstacle to relationship. I think of the disciplines like this, that they help us become more open to whatever God wants to do in/through/with us. But they are not valuable in and of themselves, as a goal or achievement or whatever. It’s hard to avoid that thinking in America.
This is such a fascinating question! What is the role of theology and mysticism in faith?
I always think of Paul Tillich on psalm 139. He suggests the problem might in fact be quite the opposite of contemplative and intellectual elitism - in that that the intellectual efforts of philosophers and theologians can become complicit in the escape attempt.
And then there's Simone Weil's assertion that the idiot, the simpleton is somehow closest to God.
Yes, yes, yes! Our faith and salvation have little to do with our cognitive abilities, flexibility of mind, or intellectual prowess. I believe that intellectualization, often in the pursuit of enlightenment, too often gets in the way. I’m by disposition an intellectual, but this has no bearing on my salvation. You’re so right that a alvation is a gift from God. A gift that only needs to be accepted.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, Dr. Beck, a danger in contemplative practices is Gnosticism? Yikes! Gimme that old time religion then, huh! https://youtu.be/dW0vtST5BB0?si=RfninJSIh6YzlC7t
Maybe I'm off here, but doesn't the idea of non-dualistic thinking bump heads with God separating the light and the darkness in the very beginning? Then there's the flesh and spirit dialectic. And Jesus even makes a distinction between God and Caesar. I wonder how Jacques Ellul would respond to the emphasis on non-dualistic thinking that's going on right now?
I’m curious what you would make of “many are called but few are chosen.”? Or “narrow is the path that leads to salvation?” There are intimations in the NT and in the early Christian tradition that there are mysteries and understandings that come from contemplation that are not for everyone. And that has been my own experience, that if you do enough contemplation, you peer into the depths of the universe and see things that would be incomprehensible to most people.
Of course, the danger in that is that you become arrogant and think you are somehow better or above everyone else who doesn’t get it or who hasn’t put in the work that you have. The church obviously struggles with this problem throughout its history. But there’s another way of understanding it, which is that those who attain “gnosis,” are called to serve others. In other words, “to whom much is given, much is required.”
Brilliant physicists obviously understand much about the nature of the universe that is beyond the comprehension of regular people like me. And that specialized knowledge can certainly make them arrogant or elitist. But none of us would say that the attainment of that knowledge, or the effort and aptitude required to attain it, is inherently bad. Why do we feel that way when the knowledge is spiritual?
I’m an old retired pastor and I’ve never been good at contemplative prayer, or any other kind but the Lords Prayer, which I love, and the jerky requests of thanksgivings of every day life. I’m ok with that, and rely heavily on the prayers of others. I used to feel guilty about it, but not any more. If I missed out on something wonderful, we’ll that’s my loss, but it has little of nothing to do with the depth of my faith.
Thank you for the great article, perspective, and your work in trying to make this world a better place in what I’m sure is a very harsh and challenging environment
I think an interesting angle on this also is the place that the orthodox and protestant traditions have in these two approaches to salvation. Ie Theosis in orthodoxy and salvation by faith and the protestant work ethic on the other hand.
Similar to what you propose, how can these two limbs on the tree work together synergistically to enrich both and maybe even offer a hybrid approach with the two?…
I think this is true of all the spiritual disciplines… I like what my brother has said about therapy, that sometimes you need a therapist to help you identify and then remove an obstacle to relationship. I think of the disciplines like this, that they help us become more open to whatever God wants to do in/through/with us. But they are not valuable in and of themselves, as a goal or achievement or whatever. It’s hard to avoid that thinking in America.
This is such a fascinating question! What is the role of theology and mysticism in faith?
I always think of Paul Tillich on psalm 139. He suggests the problem might in fact be quite the opposite of contemplative and intellectual elitism - in that that the intellectual efforts of philosophers and theologians can become complicit in the escape attempt.
And then there's Simone Weil's assertion that the idiot, the simpleton is somehow closest to God.
If I may, this is a song inspired by Weil, Tillich and a skepticism about the pursuit of knowledge: https://m.soundcloud.com/user-639393217/palisade
Yes, yes, yes! Our faith and salvation have little to do with our cognitive abilities, flexibility of mind, or intellectual prowess. I believe that intellectualization, often in the pursuit of enlightenment, too often gets in the way. I’m by disposition an intellectual, but this has no bearing on my salvation. You’re so right that a alvation is a gift from God. A gift that only needs to be accepted.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, Dr. Beck, a danger in contemplative practices is Gnosticism? Yikes! Gimme that old time religion then, huh! https://youtu.be/dW0vtST5BB0?si=RfninJSIh6YzlC7t
Maybe I'm off here, but doesn't the idea of non-dualistic thinking bump heads with God separating the light and the darkness in the very beginning? Then there's the flesh and spirit dialectic. And Jesus even makes a distinction between God and Caesar. I wonder how Jacques Ellul would respond to the emphasis on non-dualistic thinking that's going on right now?