CSL ‘The Weight of Glory’ clears this right up....
“The New Testament has lots to say about self-denial, but not about self-denial as an end in itself. We are told to deny ourselves and to take up our crosses in order that we may follow Christ; and nearly every description of what we shall ultimately find if we do so contains an appeal to desire. If there lurks in most modern minds the notion that to desire our own good and earnestly to hope for the enjoyment of it is a bad thing, I submit that this notion has crept in from Kant and the Stoics and is no part of the Christian faith. Indeed, if we con- sider the unblushing promises of reward and the stag- gering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us”
“We must not be troubled by unbelievers when they say that this promise of reward makes the Christian life a mercenary affair. There are different kinds of rewards. There is the reward which has no natural connection with the things you do to earn it and is quite foreign to the desires that ought to accompany those things....The proper rewards are not simply tacked on to the activity for which they are given, but are the activity itself in consummation.
“Those who have attained everlasting life in the vision of God doubtless know very well that it is no mere bribe, but the very consummation of their earthly discipleship”
Jesus wasn't opposed to rewards, in the Sermon on the Mount he speaks about them coming as a result of giving to the needy, praying and fasting in secret. What he is concerned about is that his followers seeking the right reward. I don't think it is always helpful to import our ideals of altruism, which tend to be fairly recent and western, into the Biblical texts.
I think about this a lot. I lean toward the idea that there is no individual salvation, at least not as an ego-based goal. I don't mean that in a Buddhist non-self sort of way. But in the death of self as sort of a construct. Non attachment and release from self-preservation.
Yesterday's Gospel reading was where James and John's mom basically goes and begs coach Jesus to make them co-captains of the heavenly squad.
And this is sort of a tangent, but it makes think of acquaintances who are really into prosperity stuff, so much that they work in both ministry and "wealth management." And it's this idea that God will bless some of us with success or in our "finances."
I'm not saying we should be wearing hair shirts and giving up all of our possessions, but it might be better to lean in that way if one is seeking union with God. What am I clinging to?
Heaven isn't so much a reward to me as destination of a long pilgrimage, one in which I am supposed to lose my false self over and over again.
I wonder what our view of time/eternity offers us in this thread? I'm thinking specifically of the view of heaven and hell that Lewis posits in The Great Divorce -- something like, when we look back, heaven will have *always* been heaven for the believer and, likewise, hell? Is there a way that love invites us into heaven/eternity at the very moment we are experiencing it?
(Rewards) I think that one aspect not mentioned here is God's perfect justice. Heaven's "rewards" in many instances will be God revealing what really was going on -- setting the story straight. The last will be first, the meek will inherit..., and those overlooked will be honored. CS Lewis and many others pointed to this. God's justice demands the correction of injustices, and "the humble will be exalted."
I had this exact argument with a friend a long time ago, who argued that if you get a reward for doing good, even feeling good about yourself for doing a good deed, that ultimately it’s selfish and rooted in your own desires for reward rather than being true altruism. I am not sure I won the argument with him (!), but I appreciate you articulating this now, because I knew even then that was a very cynical argument and sounded like self-justification for just doing what you want.
When Jesus said "set your affections on things above," I don't think He was talking about looking for eternal rewards. I think He was urging us to love God and people above our own comfort and happiness in this life.
CSL ‘The Weight of Glory’ clears this right up....
“The New Testament has lots to say about self-denial, but not about self-denial as an end in itself. We are told to deny ourselves and to take up our crosses in order that we may follow Christ; and nearly every description of what we shall ultimately find if we do so contains an appeal to desire. If there lurks in most modern minds the notion that to desire our own good and earnestly to hope for the enjoyment of it is a bad thing, I submit that this notion has crept in from Kant and the Stoics and is no part of the Christian faith. Indeed, if we con- sider the unblushing promises of reward and the stag- gering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us”
“We must not be troubled by unbelievers when they say that this promise of reward makes the Christian life a mercenary affair. There are different kinds of rewards. There is the reward which has no natural connection with the things you do to earn it and is quite foreign to the desires that ought to accompany those things....The proper rewards are not simply tacked on to the activity for which they are given, but are the activity itself in consummation.
“Those who have attained everlasting life in the vision of God doubtless know very well that it is no mere bribe, but the very consummation of their earthly discipleship”
Jesus wasn't opposed to rewards, in the Sermon on the Mount he speaks about them coming as a result of giving to the needy, praying and fasting in secret. What he is concerned about is that his followers seeking the right reward. I don't think it is always helpful to import our ideals of altruism, which tend to be fairly recent and western, into the Biblical texts.
Richard, what do you make of Jesus’ repeated insistence on being rewarded for doing good deeds in the gospels?
I think about this a lot. I lean toward the idea that there is no individual salvation, at least not as an ego-based goal. I don't mean that in a Buddhist non-self sort of way. But in the death of self as sort of a construct. Non attachment and release from self-preservation.
Yesterday's Gospel reading was where James and John's mom basically goes and begs coach Jesus to make them co-captains of the heavenly squad.
And this is sort of a tangent, but it makes think of acquaintances who are really into prosperity stuff, so much that they work in both ministry and "wealth management." And it's this idea that God will bless some of us with success or in our "finances."
I'm not saying we should be wearing hair shirts and giving up all of our possessions, but it might be better to lean in that way if one is seeking union with God. What am I clinging to?
Heaven isn't so much a reward to me as destination of a long pilgrimage, one in which I am supposed to lose my false self over and over again.
I wonder what our view of time/eternity offers us in this thread? I'm thinking specifically of the view of heaven and hell that Lewis posits in The Great Divorce -- something like, when we look back, heaven will have *always* been heaven for the believer and, likewise, hell? Is there a way that love invites us into heaven/eternity at the very moment we are experiencing it?
(Rewards) I think that one aspect not mentioned here is God's perfect justice. Heaven's "rewards" in many instances will be God revealing what really was going on -- setting the story straight. The last will be first, the meek will inherit..., and those overlooked will be honored. CS Lewis and many others pointed to this. God's justice demands the correction of injustices, and "the humble will be exalted."
I had this exact argument with a friend a long time ago, who argued that if you get a reward for doing good, even feeling good about yourself for doing a good deed, that ultimately it’s selfish and rooted in your own desires for reward rather than being true altruism. I am not sure I won the argument with him (!), but I appreciate you articulating this now, because I knew even then that was a very cynical argument and sounded like self-justification for just doing what you want.
When Jesus said "set your affections on things above," I don't think He was talking about looking for eternal rewards. I think He was urging us to love God and people above our own comfort and happiness in this life.