That's true. But I see Richard--after following him for some time--as totally aware of your point. I see him as addressing the social justice warriors in a more complex way in this series.
I’m not sure I see paying for rent as prosperity gospel... I see that more as the prayer that recognizes we need God for everything, and whether He provides for that in immediate assistance or in more long-term ways, we can trust Him to provide. The Prosperity Gospel part of it comes in for me when it becomes a transaction - “I’ve been good, God, so I know you’ll provide my rent.” Believing that we somehow deserve God’s attention and care because we’ve been righteous. And then the leaders in that world who exploit those thoughts for their own personal gain...
Richard, I am so loving this series. Of course, been following your post-progressive journey your ongoing reflections, connecting dots, insightfully probing into blindspots. Not just into prosperity gospel ("distortions"), but a whole movement of social justice warriors who are so immersed in political ends they miss marginalized individuals like those who can't pay rent or are blessed by the Joel Osteens. Thank you, thank you.
I always appreciate your adding perspective in these discussions. Aren’t we also missing another issue, though? Foster quality education both in public institutions and in the church to teach good economic principles to youngsters so that maybe we can prevent the poverty before it happens, rather than being stuck with managing the symptoms.
If you haven’t prayed/pleaded to God for rent, food, healing (physical and mental), or experienced consequences of failure, or whatever, understanding the pull of so called prosperity teachers might be difficult. When someone asserts that in order for things to turn around for you, you must pay them first is a lie of the highest order. The allure is quite real. As well I have been in church services where folks are praying fervently for their needs, the needs of others and peace on our streets and world. The prayers of the righteous and prayers of those in need are often one and the same.
Careful...its sounds like we are having a conversation about the abuse of indulgences here...
:)
The Prosperity Gospel and the Social Gospel are different sides of the same issue...the lack of charity within our religious and governmental systems. It is a terrible cultural attitude in that we do not care for the poor...we actually create policies and laws that exacerbate the conditions of poverty while at the same time blaming the victim for being stuck in such a situation. People then turn to God for help and then the charlatans come along and further take advantage of the people.
The failure of the social gospel is that it turned away from turned away from charity work and focused only on advocacy, making the fatal mistake to trust that government solutions to take care of poverty with initiatives like the New Deal and Johnson's War on Poverty would never become dysfunctional or would be abolished. With those government initiatives greatly reduced or missing, with less social support you create an environment for the Prosperity Gospel to flourish.
As with most issues....its complicated. There are many social factors that create new political or religious movements. The Prosperity Gospel is abusing the hope and trust the people have in God who are looking for their "Daily Bread". The Social Gospel followers of this generation tend not to want to get their hands dirty and actually go to the slums where the people in need truly are and serve them. It's not a good picture on either side.
I’ve meet people & been someone who was in desperate need & I’ve never meet anyone who “needed” money or things for that that matter. There does only seems to be a conflict with living in the spiritual/mystical world with Christ while also existing in the material world. Most who “need” some material thing have a very narrow view of what will make them happy & a limited view of God’s provision.
I know a particular single mom of 3 who came out of a serious drug addiction. A drop into her account of rent money or some other material hand out would have only made her dependent on hand outs. She struggled & prayed for God’s will to be done. She prayed that however God choose to fulfill His promise to take care of her & her kids that she would be open to His provision. She went through a Financial Peace University course offered through my church & continued praying & going out into the world trusting God. Did lumps of cash show up at times in her account…yes. Did she worry & pray, worry & trust…yes. For the past several years she, & her 3 kids, have lived in a home & God has blessed her.
James wrote that we don’t receive because we don’t ask & when we do ask we have corrupt motives. Paul wrote that our prayers are mumblings to God so the Holy Spirit intercedes for us to talk to God for what we REALLY need. When things are up & when things are down I’ve learned to praise God through it all. Through financial lows & highs. Through my mom dying of stage 4 colon cancer & my wife having chronic health issues. Praise seems to be the only true & real response. We have no idea what God is going to do through any particular event or season. I just want to have eyes to see His Majesty in it all.
Since there will never cease to be some in need on the earth, I therefore command you, “Open your hand to the poor and needy neighbor in your land." Deuteronomy 15:11 NRSV In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus invites people adopt God's nature and give/be generous just like He is, reminding us that God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain to the just and unjust. (cf. Matthew 5:45). Even with Jesus' encounter with the blind men on the road, he heals them all, but only one comes back thank Him. (cf. Luke 17 11- 19)
People may not show their appreciation to God in ways that we think are meaningful or appropriate. In the tale of the widow who gives only two mites, Jesus commends her instead of the rich who give big donations to the Temple treasury. When Jesus' feet are anointed by Mary and Judas gets angry, saying the nard could have been sold to help the poor, Jesus corrects him and honors Mary instead. Jesus is pointing out the difference in the level of devotion/commitment one has to God that can be easily missed if you are not paying attention.
The point is, only God knows for sure what lies deep inside the human heart and sometimes it is really really hard to tell how faithful someone truly is by outward appearances, especially when things are going well in our lives or we can easily meet our material needs on our own. In those situations, we are quick to say "Who sinned, that this person was born in this condition? and then are totally shocked when God says, no one. In America, we tend to say one has God's blessing if you have material wealth when the Gospels show time and time again we unusually have the wrong perspective.
In the same vein, it is perfectly normal to lament when hardship enters into our lives. The Book of Job clearly shows Job's struggle of faith with the loss of material wealth and his children. Job acknowledges that God gives and takes away, but is all too human in his grief and anger at the situation (and not direct it at God as his wife did) while at the same time having to defend his integrity with his friends saying that he did nothing wrong. God does humble Job when He reveals Himself to him, yet at the same time God declares that Job is righteous and restores him.
Our prevailing attitude towards God, whether times be good or bad, and our determination to reach out and grab the hem of his garment (or in Job's case, have his day in court) makes a huge difference in how God responds to us. God does provide general provisions to mankind, however if we want to have the miraculous show up in our lives, your devotion to Him has to be more than skin deep.
People take part in magical thinking all the time, and those with little (as you point out) are looking to ways to improve their lives. I am not critical of the followers as much as I am the leaders in this movement that take advantage of those who are looking for hope as they take their money and live "high-on-the-hog".. in ways Jesus would absolutely never do. They fit in fine with our exploitation society and capitalism. But I also find these toxic positivity, and these wellness gurus that. promote self-centered focus to be a questionable lot.
Richard, you're provoking some worthwhile, and hopefully profitable, reflection on the divisions and blind spots in the body of Christ. I pray good fruit comes of this on earth as it is in heaven.
Of course not . . . but that's not the so-called "Prosperity Gospel," is it? We've "prayed for rent money" in our family at times. Here's a more encompassing prayer that I think Jesus, Himself, prayed often. https://themjkxn.substack.com/p/god-save-the-people
That’s part of the “prosperity gospel,” which is, I think, central to the point Richard is making - that too many of us fail to see, or even dismiss, that aspect of the prosperity gospel. In our critiques, we throw the “praying for rent with *expectation*” baby out with the “prosperity gospel” bath water.
There’s a whole swath of social justice movement folks who are very big on mutual aid, which I see as addressing the very space you are talking about.
That's true. But I see Richard--after following him for some time--as totally aware of your point. I see him as addressing the social justice warriors in a more complex way in this series.
I’m not sure I see paying for rent as prosperity gospel... I see that more as the prayer that recognizes we need God for everything, and whether He provides for that in immediate assistance or in more long-term ways, we can trust Him to provide. The Prosperity Gospel part of it comes in for me when it becomes a transaction - “I’ve been good, God, so I know you’ll provide my rent.” Believing that we somehow deserve God’s attention and care because we’ve been righteous. And then the leaders in that world who exploit those thoughts for their own personal gain...
Richard, I am so loving this series. Of course, been following your post-progressive journey your ongoing reflections, connecting dots, insightfully probing into blindspots. Not just into prosperity gospel ("distortions"), but a whole movement of social justice warriors who are so immersed in political ends they miss marginalized individuals like those who can't pay rent or are blessed by the Joel Osteens. Thank you, thank you.
I always appreciate your adding perspective in these discussions. Aren’t we also missing another issue, though? Foster quality education both in public institutions and in the church to teach good economic principles to youngsters so that maybe we can prevent the poverty before it happens, rather than being stuck with managing the symptoms.
Thank you so much. This is so insightful.
If you haven’t prayed/pleaded to God for rent, food, healing (physical and mental), or experienced consequences of failure, or whatever, understanding the pull of so called prosperity teachers might be difficult. When someone asserts that in order for things to turn around for you, you must pay them first is a lie of the highest order. The allure is quite real. As well I have been in church services where folks are praying fervently for their needs, the needs of others and peace on our streets and world. The prayers of the righteous and prayers of those in need are often one and the same.
Careful...its sounds like we are having a conversation about the abuse of indulgences here...
:)
The Prosperity Gospel and the Social Gospel are different sides of the same issue...the lack of charity within our religious and governmental systems. It is a terrible cultural attitude in that we do not care for the poor...we actually create policies and laws that exacerbate the conditions of poverty while at the same time blaming the victim for being stuck in such a situation. People then turn to God for help and then the charlatans come along and further take advantage of the people.
The failure of the social gospel is that it turned away from turned away from charity work and focused only on advocacy, making the fatal mistake to trust that government solutions to take care of poverty with initiatives like the New Deal and Johnson's War on Poverty would never become dysfunctional or would be abolished. With those government initiatives greatly reduced or missing, with less social support you create an environment for the Prosperity Gospel to flourish.
As with most issues....its complicated. There are many social factors that create new political or religious movements. The Prosperity Gospel is abusing the hope and trust the people have in God who are looking for their "Daily Bread". The Social Gospel followers of this generation tend not to want to get their hands dirty and actually go to the slums where the people in need truly are and serve them. It's not a good picture on either side.
@Lucy. I appreciate your comments on this topic. I posted a comment as well. I’d appreciate your feedback if you are able.
I’ve meet people & been someone who was in desperate need & I’ve never meet anyone who “needed” money or things for that that matter. There does only seems to be a conflict with living in the spiritual/mystical world with Christ while also existing in the material world. Most who “need” some material thing have a very narrow view of what will make them happy & a limited view of God’s provision.
I know a particular single mom of 3 who came out of a serious drug addiction. A drop into her account of rent money or some other material hand out would have only made her dependent on hand outs. She struggled & prayed for God’s will to be done. She prayed that however God choose to fulfill His promise to take care of her & her kids that she would be open to His provision. She went through a Financial Peace University course offered through my church & continued praying & going out into the world trusting God. Did lumps of cash show up at times in her account…yes. Did she worry & pray, worry & trust…yes. For the past several years she, & her 3 kids, have lived in a home & God has blessed her.
My point is that she wanted the Blesser more than the blessing, the Healer more than the healing. (Natalie Grant song) https://youtu.be/mNkDdXhjFy0?si=55pglE-iyYUgU9oM
James wrote that we don’t receive because we don’t ask & when we do ask we have corrupt motives. Paul wrote that our prayers are mumblings to God so the Holy Spirit intercedes for us to talk to God for what we REALLY need. When things are up & when things are down I’ve learned to praise God through it all. Through financial lows & highs. Through my mom dying of stage 4 colon cancer & my wife having chronic health issues. Praise seems to be the only true & real response. We have no idea what God is going to do through any particular event or season. I just want to have eyes to see His Majesty in it all.
Since there will never cease to be some in need on the earth, I therefore command you, “Open your hand to the poor and needy neighbor in your land." Deuteronomy 15:11 NRSV In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus invites people adopt God's nature and give/be generous just like He is, reminding us that God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain to the just and unjust. (cf. Matthew 5:45). Even with Jesus' encounter with the blind men on the road, he heals them all, but only one comes back thank Him. (cf. Luke 17 11- 19)
People may not show their appreciation to God in ways that we think are meaningful or appropriate. In the tale of the widow who gives only two mites, Jesus commends her instead of the rich who give big donations to the Temple treasury. When Jesus' feet are anointed by Mary and Judas gets angry, saying the nard could have been sold to help the poor, Jesus corrects him and honors Mary instead. Jesus is pointing out the difference in the level of devotion/commitment one has to God that can be easily missed if you are not paying attention.
The point is, only God knows for sure what lies deep inside the human heart and sometimes it is really really hard to tell how faithful someone truly is by outward appearances, especially when things are going well in our lives or we can easily meet our material needs on our own. In those situations, we are quick to say "Who sinned, that this person was born in this condition? and then are totally shocked when God says, no one. In America, we tend to say one has God's blessing if you have material wealth when the Gospels show time and time again we unusually have the wrong perspective.
In the same vein, it is perfectly normal to lament when hardship enters into our lives. The Book of Job clearly shows Job's struggle of faith with the loss of material wealth and his children. Job acknowledges that God gives and takes away, but is all too human in his grief and anger at the situation (and not direct it at God as his wife did) while at the same time having to defend his integrity with his friends saying that he did nothing wrong. God does humble Job when He reveals Himself to him, yet at the same time God declares that Job is righteous and restores him.
Our prevailing attitude towards God, whether times be good or bad, and our determination to reach out and grab the hem of his garment (or in Job's case, have his day in court) makes a huge difference in how God responds to us. God does provide general provisions to mankind, however if we want to have the miraculous show up in our lives, your devotion to Him has to be more than skin deep.
People take part in magical thinking all the time, and those with little (as you point out) are looking to ways to improve their lives. I am not critical of the followers as much as I am the leaders in this movement that take advantage of those who are looking for hope as they take their money and live "high-on-the-hog".. in ways Jesus would absolutely never do. They fit in fine with our exploitation society and capitalism. But I also find these toxic positivity, and these wellness gurus that. promote self-centered focus to be a questionable lot.
Richard, you're provoking some worthwhile, and hopefully profitable, reflection on the divisions and blind spots in the body of Christ. I pray good fruit comes of this on earth as it is in heaven.
How doesn't the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" NOT violate Jesus' teaching about the impossibility of serving both God and mammon?
Are folks praying for rent money “serving mammon”?
Of course not . . . but that's not the so-called "Prosperity Gospel," is it? We've "prayed for rent money" in our family at times. Here's a more encompassing prayer that I think Jesus, Himself, prayed often. https://themjkxn.substack.com/p/god-save-the-people
That’s part of the “prosperity gospel,” which is, I think, central to the point Richard is making - that too many of us fail to see, or even dismiss, that aspect of the prosperity gospel. In our critiques, we throw the “praying for rent with *expectation*” baby out with the “prosperity gospel” bath water.
Great metaphor!