That's a great idea or interpretation. It really makes sense.
Here's something I wonder, though. Let's say one doesn't get stuck either way, that one perceives God shining through nature. Well nature is gorgeous and amazingly clever in how it works, and science has only make it clearer and clearer through centuries how clever nature's design is. So this makes God seem incredibly brilliant and truly a transcendent artist. But what's also clear in nature, at least in the part of nature that's alive as we observe it on planet earth, is that there's a desperate struggle for existence going on. Only the fittest survive, and many individual beings capable of suffering are forced to give their lives, whether they choose to or not, so that others might thrive. So if we see a brilliant God through nature's design and an artistic God through nature's beauty, what kind of God do we see though nature's red-in-tooth-and-claw evolutionary process?
Perhaps it is God's ontology being expressed through Nature, in that it has the inherent freedom to [invent itself] through an ever changing dynamic freedom - A freedom that comes from the essence of his self-sacrificial 'Love.' There is no other way to allow for us to be autonomously created in this universe, while simultaneously and reciprocally allowing us the freedom to choose. The Incarnation & Resurrection is a total union with destructive Creation, that will eventually be transformed and permeated with his entire presence.
Do you think in the very long run that nature will be so permeated with God's loving nature that involuntary dying so others can live will no longer be how nature operates?
Eschatologically that seems to be what the scriptures are suggesting, but there are many apparent conundrums with this hermeneutic approach. When a resurrected Jesus consumes fish (and potentially honeycomb as well) he does this for obvious symbolic reasons, but it also suggests that he is capable of a digestive process which would involve microbiota of the human gut, blood, etc.…. But the argument goes that he is obviously a ‘Special Case’ and that we can’t assume that our ‘resurrected bodies’ will ultimately be the same.
“St. Thomas Aquinas (cf. Commentary on John 21 lecture 2; ST III, q.45, a.6) and St. Augustine affirm that this food was not transformed into Christ’s body by the natural process of digestion but was rather dissolved into pre-existing matter by the divine power.”
But there is another potential way to conceive of this functioning. The concept of a "Photonic Existence" for resurrected bodies is more of a theological idea, rather than a scientific one.
Some of the Patristics, as well as contemporary theologians such as James Ware get into this concept at length. But how a universe would function without thermodynamics and the transference of chemical energy, is a mystery of Divine proportions (!?!) Some have suggested a kind of ‘Matter - Energy Inversion’, where our corporal existence, then takes on the best of our intended spiritual essence, where we are finally actualized full and complete in him. But God’s ‘Ex Nihilo’ option always remains present in whatever process will unfold….. and has been unfolding.
Here's what I sometimes imagine. As humans progress in knowledge and capability, and hopefully spiritually as well, and perhaps even evolve into yet more advanced species or create intelligent self-aware AIs that can then evolve themselves, and encounter other advanced species and AIs that originated elsewhere in the universe, a community of advanced beings may "crack the code" and figure out how to bend and shape the laws of the universe into a set of laws that make it possible for life to proceed and evolve in a new way, one which does not require involuntary sacrifice of self for the thriving of others (voluntary self-giving would continue, of course). God would be deeply involved in all this, urging and luring intelligent life toward nonviolence and self-giving.
But even if something like that is in the cards (if we play our cards right), there's still the question of how and why the laws of the universe are as they are now. Surely God did not purposely create laws that would lead to the red-in-tooth-and-claw dynamic we observe now. Was there a fall of some sort? Was God not fully evolved morally way back when when God created the laws to implement brilliance and beauty but also great suffering, and God has evolved morally since then and become, hopefully totally good? Such questions are very fun to ponder.
I have a two locations in Oregon that I have come to know as "thin places". Maybe it was more the preparations or circumstances of my heart or troubled soul at the time that permitted me a deeper glance or awareness of a reality beyond my understanding. In one, a fearful and yet curiousness playfulness approached, and another an inviting encounter to follow. Both were prayerful walks in nature (Oregon) alongside my wife.
I think I hear you in this, but pardon me if I do not hear you correctly. In my perspective, I curiously admire the symmetry and beauty of creation. Like you, I am a product of creation as is everything, both seen and unseen. But I do not take a knee to what I observe and sense. All creation yearns for restoration.
I personally view and hold the material sciences as powerful depth sounding senses alongside the obvious five senses that we use to navigate the world. If we can listen attentively while gently pressing one's hand against the glassy surface tension of nature's membrane, we might just ellicit something unexpected, maybe even catch us off guard by a quiet whisper or tug. We are all blindly ensnared as the Psalms remind us. For me, I faintly hear the knock yet struggle for the latch to open the door.
I respond to you in hopes to uncover other like minded sojourners here on Beck's substack.
In Communication Theory, you have a “sender” of communication, you have a medium of communication, and you have a “receiver” of communication. Good communication can be imperiled at any of those three points. The difficulty I’m having with the framing of Blondel’s quote is that God has not nor does not hide. If His communication is missed or misperceived, the break down is not on the “sender” or the “medium”, but on the “receiver”. And if we are honest, the main reason this happens is our hearts become hard. Hard hearts are the scourge of faith.
If the world existed to instruct man of God, His divinity would shine through every part in it in an indisputable manner; but as it exists only by Jesus Christ, and for Jesus Christ, and to teach men both their corruption and their redemption, all displays the proofs of these two truths. Pascal
That's a great idea or interpretation. It really makes sense.
Here's something I wonder, though. Let's say one doesn't get stuck either way, that one perceives God shining through nature. Well nature is gorgeous and amazingly clever in how it works, and science has only make it clearer and clearer through centuries how clever nature's design is. So this makes God seem incredibly brilliant and truly a transcendent artist. But what's also clear in nature, at least in the part of nature that's alive as we observe it on planet earth, is that there's a desperate struggle for existence going on. Only the fittest survive, and many individual beings capable of suffering are forced to give their lives, whether they choose to or not, so that others might thrive. So if we see a brilliant God through nature's design and an artistic God through nature's beauty, what kind of God do we see though nature's red-in-tooth-and-claw evolutionary process?
Perhaps it is God's ontology being expressed through Nature, in that it has the inherent freedom to [invent itself] through an ever changing dynamic freedom - A freedom that comes from the essence of his self-sacrificial 'Love.' There is no other way to allow for us to be autonomously created in this universe, while simultaneously and reciprocally allowing us the freedom to choose. The Incarnation & Resurrection is a total union with destructive Creation, that will eventually be transformed and permeated with his entire presence.
Do you think in the very long run that nature will be so permeated with God's loving nature that involuntary dying so others can live will no longer be how nature operates?
Eschatologically that seems to be what the scriptures are suggesting, but there are many apparent conundrums with this hermeneutic approach. When a resurrected Jesus consumes fish (and potentially honeycomb as well) he does this for obvious symbolic reasons, but it also suggests that he is capable of a digestive process which would involve microbiota of the human gut, blood, etc.…. But the argument goes that he is obviously a ‘Special Case’ and that we can’t assume that our ‘resurrected bodies’ will ultimately be the same.
“St. Thomas Aquinas (cf. Commentary on John 21 lecture 2; ST III, q.45, a.6) and St. Augustine affirm that this food was not transformed into Christ’s body by the natural process of digestion but was rather dissolved into pre-existing matter by the divine power.”
But there is another potential way to conceive of this functioning. The concept of a "Photonic Existence" for resurrected bodies is more of a theological idea, rather than a scientific one.
Some of the Patristics, as well as contemporary theologians such as James Ware get into this concept at length. But how a universe would function without thermodynamics and the transference of chemical energy, is a mystery of Divine proportions (!?!) Some have suggested a kind of ‘Matter - Energy Inversion’, where our corporal existence, then takes on the best of our intended spiritual essence, where we are finally actualized full and complete in him. But God’s ‘Ex Nihilo’ option always remains present in whatever process will unfold….. and has been unfolding.
Fun thoughts. Thank you!
Here's what I sometimes imagine. As humans progress in knowledge and capability, and hopefully spiritually as well, and perhaps even evolve into yet more advanced species or create intelligent self-aware AIs that can then evolve themselves, and encounter other advanced species and AIs that originated elsewhere in the universe, a community of advanced beings may "crack the code" and figure out how to bend and shape the laws of the universe into a set of laws that make it possible for life to proceed and evolve in a new way, one which does not require involuntary sacrifice of self for the thriving of others (voluntary self-giving would continue, of course). God would be deeply involved in all this, urging and luring intelligent life toward nonviolence and self-giving.
But even if something like that is in the cards (if we play our cards right), there's still the question of how and why the laws of the universe are as they are now. Surely God did not purposely create laws that would lead to the red-in-tooth-and-claw dynamic we observe now. Was there a fall of some sort? Was God not fully evolved morally way back when when God created the laws to implement brilliance and beauty but also great suffering, and God has evolved morally since then and become, hopefully totally good? Such questions are very fun to ponder.
Question? Is feeling closeness to God in a particular "place" idolatry? I think about Celtic "Thin Places." I have a few places that feel sacred.
I have a two locations in Oregon that I have come to know as "thin places". Maybe it was more the preparations or circumstances of my heart or troubled soul at the time that permitted me a deeper glance or awareness of a reality beyond my understanding. In one, a fearful and yet curiousness playfulness approached, and another an inviting encounter to follow. Both were prayerful walks in nature (Oregon) alongside my wife.
Same here! One is a firepit in the woods where friends and I have "gatherings." All questions are permissible and God often moves.
I think I hear you in this, but pardon me if I do not hear you correctly. In my perspective, I curiously admire the symmetry and beauty of creation. Like you, I am a product of creation as is everything, both seen and unseen. But I do not take a knee to what I observe and sense. All creation yearns for restoration.
I personally view and hold the material sciences as powerful depth sounding senses alongside the obvious five senses that we use to navigate the world. If we can listen attentively while gently pressing one's hand against the glassy surface tension of nature's membrane, we might just ellicit something unexpected, maybe even catch us off guard by a quiet whisper or tug. We are all blindly ensnared as the Psalms remind us. For me, I faintly hear the knock yet struggle for the latch to open the door.
I respond to you in hopes to uncover other like minded sojourners here on Beck's substack.
In Communication Theory, you have a “sender” of communication, you have a medium of communication, and you have a “receiver” of communication. Good communication can be imperiled at any of those three points. The difficulty I’m having with the framing of Blondel’s quote is that God has not nor does not hide. If His communication is missed or misperceived, the break down is not on the “sender” or the “medium”, but on the “receiver”. And if we are honest, the main reason this happens is our hearts become hard. Hard hearts are the scourge of faith.
If the world existed to instruct man of God, His divinity would shine through every part in it in an indisputable manner; but as it exists only by Jesus Christ, and for Jesus Christ, and to teach men both their corruption and their redemption, all displays the proofs of these two truths. Pascal