Well said! The New Testament isn't all sweetness and light either. I think the OT only hints at an eternal-conscious-torment type hell one time (Daniel - correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the NT has many suggestions of such a hell including a bunch coming out of gentle Jesus' mouth (though clever and careful parsing can make the case that it doesn't really say anyone will go there). And then there's the book of Revelation which is practically overflowing with retributive language (very stirring language, to be sure, but severe and stern, to extend your alliterative streak).
Yes, I think it is entirely possible. There are strong scriptural arguments for it, as well as traditional teachings in certain branches of the faith. It is potentially though a metaphysical event that transcends linear time and space as we experience it. It demonstrates the transcendent interconnectedness of Christ’s salvific power and love, which recapitulates even those who came before with a triumphant universal message of hope and reconciliation. Love is an all-reconciling force that is not held captive to the physics of time & space, nor the dissemination of our molecules.
I was certainly taught it growing up Catholic. Do you think everyone ultimately accepts a relationship with God, in other words, that all are reconciled to God in the end?
I am unapologetically a Hopeful Universalist who believes that the ultimate reconciliation of all, is very possible given the limitless love and compassion of the risen Christ. But one must be careful on insisting and demanding that this happen eschatologically. As a cognitively limited finite created being, I am spiritually and perceptually inadequate to separate any human wheat from the chaff. Our ultimate ontological essence is more than the just the accrued experiences of this finite life, where our free will agency operates on limited information, in limited historical contexts, which can lead us and others to self-destruction and suffering. But in Christ, we have overcome this world, as he has in his full humanity and Divinity. Whatever horrific darkness and malevolence remains at our death, will ultimately be burned away in the light and beauty of his presence. The ‘Imago Dei’ will eventually return to its source from which it was granted. Our being, is ultimately codependent upon the ‘Ground of all Being’. Contemporary theologians and scholars such as; Thomas Talbott, Robyn Parry, David Bentley Hart, Rob Bell, Ilaria Ramelli and many others have written extensively on this and they present a logically coherent exegeses for its validity. But as Richard has adroitly pointed out many times here, “We actually do need a teaching of Hell” because essentially, (as with speed limits in the car) some are spiritually troglodyte and will just not see the reasoning behind slowing down for their own safety and that of others, and require heavy punitive measures to keep them inline and or some becoming spiritually smug and arrogant, avoiding repentance and transformation.
Thank you for reminding me of Thomas Talbott. I read him a while back and loved his stuff but he slipped from my mind. I too am a hopeful universalist. I suspect everyone will come around in the end, and agree to submit to having the gross stuff burned away (which would be hellish for a while, even while God's love would be available). But my readings in open and relational theology over the last decade have convinced me that some beings "could" refuse God's love if they were really determined to do so. But the prospect of living forever apart from God and God's community would surely bring every soul around. It may also be, though, that one can elect to stop existing rather than yielding to love. If that is an option, I suppose some truly tortured souls might take that route. All pure speculation, of course.
Love these Friday reflections.
My daughter made me a sticker for the back of my truck that said "Dirt Life" With this scripture reference under it. Sounded better than "Dust Life"
Well said! The New Testament isn't all sweetness and light either. I think the OT only hints at an eternal-conscious-torment type hell one time (Daniel - correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the NT has many suggestions of such a hell including a bunch coming out of gentle Jesus' mouth (though clever and careful parsing can make the case that it doesn't really say anyone will go there). And then there's the book of Revelation which is practically overflowing with retributive language (very stirring language, to be sure, but severe and stern, to extend your alliterative streak).
If you haven't already, please do explore the theology concerning the 'Harrowing of Hell' - Wiki it when free.
Interesting. Do you think Christ descended to hell or Hades or Sheol between his death on the cross and his resurrection?
Yes, I think it is entirely possible. There are strong scriptural arguments for it, as well as traditional teachings in certain branches of the faith. It is potentially though a metaphysical event that transcends linear time and space as we experience it. It demonstrates the transcendent interconnectedness of Christ’s salvific power and love, which recapitulates even those who came before with a triumphant universal message of hope and reconciliation. Love is an all-reconciling force that is not held captive to the physics of time & space, nor the dissemination of our molecules.
I was certainly taught it growing up Catholic. Do you think everyone ultimately accepts a relationship with God, in other words, that all are reconciled to God in the end?
I am unapologetically a Hopeful Universalist who believes that the ultimate reconciliation of all, is very possible given the limitless love and compassion of the risen Christ. But one must be careful on insisting and demanding that this happen eschatologically. As a cognitively limited finite created being, I am spiritually and perceptually inadequate to separate any human wheat from the chaff. Our ultimate ontological essence is more than the just the accrued experiences of this finite life, where our free will agency operates on limited information, in limited historical contexts, which can lead us and others to self-destruction and suffering. But in Christ, we have overcome this world, as he has in his full humanity and Divinity. Whatever horrific darkness and malevolence remains at our death, will ultimately be burned away in the light and beauty of his presence. The ‘Imago Dei’ will eventually return to its source from which it was granted. Our being, is ultimately codependent upon the ‘Ground of all Being’. Contemporary theologians and scholars such as; Thomas Talbott, Robyn Parry, David Bentley Hart, Rob Bell, Ilaria Ramelli and many others have written extensively on this and they present a logically coherent exegeses for its validity. But as Richard has adroitly pointed out many times here, “We actually do need a teaching of Hell” because essentially, (as with speed limits in the car) some are spiritually troglodyte and will just not see the reasoning behind slowing down for their own safety and that of others, and require heavy punitive measures to keep them inline and or some becoming spiritually smug and arrogant, avoiding repentance and transformation.
Thank you for reminding me of Thomas Talbott. I read him a while back and loved his stuff but he slipped from my mind. I too am a hopeful universalist. I suspect everyone will come around in the end, and agree to submit to having the gross stuff burned away (which would be hellish for a while, even while God's love would be available). But my readings in open and relational theology over the last decade have convinced me that some beings "could" refuse God's love if they were really determined to do so. But the prospect of living forever apart from God and God's community would surely bring every soul around. It may also be, though, that one can elect to stop existing rather than yielding to love. If that is an option, I suppose some truly tortured souls might take that route. All pure speculation, of course.
I've heard that Revelation is mostly taken from OT Scripture.