Both Jeremiah 25: 15-16 and Revelation 14: 9-10 indicate God will send the wine of His wrath to certain nations (Jeremiah) and people (Rev.) to stagger, confuse, and generally suffer turmoil.
I would like to ask:
First, could this action be understood metaphorically or symbolically, in that the people and nations that suffer turmoil, etc. really are bringing such suffering upon themselves by doing the wrong thing and thereby reaping the consequential results of their violations. They don't do what is right, and suffer the bad results of their wrong actions in not doing things God's way. They are in effect, learning right from wrong - much as a youngster learns to not touch a red hot stove after they have been burnt previously upon touching such stove.
Secondly, if the above is not the case, then how can God's wrath, judgment, punishment be understood where:
God created mankind imperfect, faulty, fallible, limited, one could even say 'dysfunctional', flawed (they could not see through satan's (the snake's) lies - the man did-but that's another discussion (1 Tim. 2: 14)), and
Rev.12: 9 The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or satan, who leads the whole world astray. (NIV)
2 Cor. 4: 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (NIV)
If the world is deliberately deceived by satan - who God put there to do this - for satan cannot just do what he wants against God's creation and will - then is it surprising that people and nations who are deceived, and not called by God, will be doing the wrong thing?
This leads me to think the first interpretation - a learning process, with consequences for right and wrong - is probably the case.
I had a discussion last week about how God's judgment was Him allowing us to do things our way and that I believed we are under His judgment now. He will allow us to take this as far as we want. All the way to the pig trough.
Peter Grach: Psalm 75
Both Jeremiah 25: 15-16 and Revelation 14: 9-10 indicate God will send the wine of His wrath to certain nations (Jeremiah) and people (Rev.) to stagger, confuse, and generally suffer turmoil.
I would like to ask:
First, could this action be understood metaphorically or symbolically, in that the people and nations that suffer turmoil, etc. really are bringing such suffering upon themselves by doing the wrong thing and thereby reaping the consequential results of their violations. They don't do what is right, and suffer the bad results of their wrong actions in not doing things God's way. They are in effect, learning right from wrong - much as a youngster learns to not touch a red hot stove after they have been burnt previously upon touching such stove.
Secondly, if the above is not the case, then how can God's wrath, judgment, punishment be understood where:
God created mankind imperfect, faulty, fallible, limited, one could even say 'dysfunctional', flawed (they could not see through satan's (the snake's) lies - the man did-but that's another discussion (1 Tim. 2: 14)), and
Rev.12: 9 The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or satan, who leads the whole world astray. (NIV)
2 Cor. 4: 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (NIV)
If the world is deliberately deceived by satan - who God put there to do this - for satan cannot just do what he wants against God's creation and will - then is it surprising that people and nations who are deceived, and not called by God, will be doing the wrong thing?
This leads me to think the first interpretation - a learning process, with consequences for right and wrong - is probably the case.
Thanking you for reading my comment and question.
Best Regards,
Peter Grach
Insightful, perceptive, and provocative as always. Many thanks.
I had a discussion last week about how God's judgment was Him allowing us to do things our way and that I believed we are under His judgment now. He will allow us to take this as far as we want. All the way to the pig trough.