My (probably kinda fuzzy) understanding of the traditional protestant view is more like "you who are justified have been made holy, have been freed from sin, and are sanctified. So now, live into/from that reality." So it is still a work of God, yet that doesn't mean passivity on our part. We still are called to "put on Christ." This of course requires continuous and even strenuous effort, but Paul seems to say that even that effort is actually God working in us. (philippians 2:12-13) I also think that Dallas Willard quote is helpful: "Grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning."
So I really don't know if traditional Protestantism is as unequipped for structured spiritual practice as it would seem, but definitely a lot of those resources within Protestantism have been lost which is unfortunate. Kyle Strobel has been an incredibly helpful writer (and podcaster) for me in getting a deeper understanding of spiritual formation in the Reformed/Protestant tradition.
You've nailed the conundrum perfectly. As a Calvinist turned Lutheran, I long for some of these practices and yet I view them as adiaphora, which lessens their importance and perhaps their power.
Perhaps our tradition of hymns is a an unrecognized tool of sanctification--we memorize the lyrics and learn harmony parts, etc. That seems to take a lot of discipline.
Somehow God works, and we also work, and it’s very difficult to describe to anyone looking, but I can definitively look back over my life and see how much God has changed my heart. I read the Bible pretty regularly as a kid/teen, both because my mother encouraged it and because I love to read. And now in my 50s I can see that I make choices in my life because Jesus has asked me to, or because I want to be like Him. But it’s been a rough road getting to this point… thinking in terms of relationship helps me keep a focus on God Himself rather than on what I’m doing to be approved of by God.
What has helped me sort a lot of this out has been some of John Eldridge’s teachings about having an “intimate” relationship with Jesus. I want to be with Him. I want to know Him. I want to be like Him. I believe He desires the same.
The old hymn from Paul’s letter to the Philippians comes to mind: “I want to know Christ and the power of his rising. Share in His suffering; conform to His death. When I pour out my life to be filled with His Spirit, joy follows suffering and life follows death.”
I've thoroughly enjoyed this series as someone who has been immersed in the slice of evangelicalism that struggles with antinomianism, the neo-calvinist movement maybe better known as the Young Restless and Reformed movement. Rediscovering the gospel, my life was turned upside down. Seeing Christ in all of scripture made me want to be a preacher and here I am. But something my wife pointed out to me years back in another church that tended heavily towards antinomianism is that we had effectively turned the gospel into a kind of chess-piece. If we just played the right "piece" of the gospel--plugging it into any problem or situation--then we would overcome that issue or idol. What that gospel chess doesn't account for is that life in Jesus seems to be more than just knowing the gospel. My question then is this: how does one emphasize BOTH our justification by grace through faith and the work of sanctification by grace through faith (which Richard helpfully says is loyalty and not merely mental assent)? How do we follow Jesus as his justified people? It must be more than preaching to ourselves and to one another that we are justified, right?
I write as one raised in the Roman Catholic church who now worships with Southern Baptists, a church which if there are any lower, I don't want to know it. I wandered away from my Roman Catholicism roots in my teens to pursue a life of sex, drugs, and rock & roll, but then I found myself a "born again" Christian at 20 through the witness of people who told me "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life . . . " I don't remember any ancient spiritual disciplines or talk thereof in either my Roman Catholic years or my Protestant ones until I read Richard Foster's book "Celebration of Discipline" when I was in my forties. I loved the book, but didn't incorporate the practices described therein. Today at 67, I sense the need for something to help sanctify my justified soul. However, my life experience tells me that maybe that will happen and maybe it won't. Still, it wasn't until he was 80 that Moses did much with his life either. And even then, he finally screwed up too, didn't he? "Just as I am without one plea . . . " That's a pretty good song, huh?
My (probably kinda fuzzy) understanding of the traditional protestant view is more like "you who are justified have been made holy, have been freed from sin, and are sanctified. So now, live into/from that reality." So it is still a work of God, yet that doesn't mean passivity on our part. We still are called to "put on Christ." This of course requires continuous and even strenuous effort, but Paul seems to say that even that effort is actually God working in us. (philippians 2:12-13) I also think that Dallas Willard quote is helpful: "Grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning."
So I really don't know if traditional Protestantism is as unequipped for structured spiritual practice as it would seem, but definitely a lot of those resources within Protestantism have been lost which is unfortunate. Kyle Strobel has been an incredibly helpful writer (and podcaster) for me in getting a deeper understanding of spiritual formation in the Reformed/Protestant tradition.
You've nailed the conundrum perfectly. As a Calvinist turned Lutheran, I long for some of these practices and yet I view them as adiaphora, which lessens their importance and perhaps their power.
Perhaps our tradition of hymns is a an unrecognized tool of sanctification--we memorize the lyrics and learn harmony parts, etc. That seems to take a lot of discipline.
My point being, it’s not really “discipline” just like it’s not “discipline” to be with my wife.
Somehow God works, and we also work, and it’s very difficult to describe to anyone looking, but I can definitively look back over my life and see how much God has changed my heart. I read the Bible pretty regularly as a kid/teen, both because my mother encouraged it and because I love to read. And now in my 50s I can see that I make choices in my life because Jesus has asked me to, or because I want to be like Him. But it’s been a rough road getting to this point… thinking in terms of relationship helps me keep a focus on God Himself rather than on what I’m doing to be approved of by God.
What has helped me sort a lot of this out has been some of John Eldridge’s teachings about having an “intimate” relationship with Jesus. I want to be with Him. I want to know Him. I want to be like Him. I believe He desires the same.
The old hymn from Paul’s letter to the Philippians comes to mind: “I want to know Christ and the power of his rising. Share in His suffering; conform to His death. When I pour out my life to be filled with His Spirit, joy follows suffering and life follows death.”
I've thoroughly enjoyed this series as someone who has been immersed in the slice of evangelicalism that struggles with antinomianism, the neo-calvinist movement maybe better known as the Young Restless and Reformed movement. Rediscovering the gospel, my life was turned upside down. Seeing Christ in all of scripture made me want to be a preacher and here I am. But something my wife pointed out to me years back in another church that tended heavily towards antinomianism is that we had effectively turned the gospel into a kind of chess-piece. If we just played the right "piece" of the gospel--plugging it into any problem or situation--then we would overcome that issue or idol. What that gospel chess doesn't account for is that life in Jesus seems to be more than just knowing the gospel. My question then is this: how does one emphasize BOTH our justification by grace through faith and the work of sanctification by grace through faith (which Richard helpfully says is loyalty and not merely mental assent)? How do we follow Jesus as his justified people? It must be more than preaching to ourselves and to one another that we are justified, right?
Your point about low-church protestants valuing revival over discipline is super insightful. That has been very true in my experience.
I write as one raised in the Roman Catholic church who now worships with Southern Baptists, a church which if there are any lower, I don't want to know it. I wandered away from my Roman Catholicism roots in my teens to pursue a life of sex, drugs, and rock & roll, but then I found myself a "born again" Christian at 20 through the witness of people who told me "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life . . . " I don't remember any ancient spiritual disciplines or talk thereof in either my Roman Catholic years or my Protestant ones until I read Richard Foster's book "Celebration of Discipline" when I was in my forties. I loved the book, but didn't incorporate the practices described therein. Today at 67, I sense the need for something to help sanctify my justified soul. However, my life experience tells me that maybe that will happen and maybe it won't. Still, it wasn't until he was 80 that Moses did much with his life either. And even then, he finally screwed up too, didn't he? "Just as I am without one plea . . . " That's a pretty good song, huh?