I think the _tension_ exists here, but the last paragraph seems to reduce it to a flat trade-off that doesn't seem to jive with all historical reality.
For example, during the Civil Rights Movement, did the US become more or less Christian? Did it become more or less democratic? My instincts are that King and others helped us become both more Christian and more democratic.
So maybe this isn't a flat trade-off, but a rare tension that is sometimes overcome, although rarely and with great challenge and cost?
I’m not sure about this particular tension. No doubt there is tension between liberal democracy and the type of faith promoted by Christian nationalists. But from my viewpoint, the faith of the gospels is just grateful to have the freedom and liberty to practice and live out the faith openly. It is not interested in any form of coerced or forced compliance, and really has little interest in politics in general, other than politics that continue to allow and foster a society of liberty to allow people to make free choices. Free choice is truly the only “Creator endowed” right we have as humans. All other rights are a matter of contract between the Government and the Governed.
..and I would say that sadly, the so-called christians that are attempting to get rid of liberalism are in no way reflective of the christianity of Jesus... and I am sure that Muslims and others may say that same about their fundamentalist versions. ..and then comes the discussion of unregulated capitalism that the national "christian" right embrace and that is a destructive force to good values, to mental health, to economic chances for the many in this country...and so it goes.... like the drain that spins downward with swampy water. So maybe, just maybe, we will find that the answer is for Christians to act like Jesus, and give up the money chase for the community approach that takes the teachings of Jesus very seriously, like we see in the Bruderhoff community.
“In liberal democracy, so long as you don't harm your neighbor, you are free to believe anything you want and pursue happiness as you think best.”
and
“For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The one who serves Christ in this way is acceptable to God and has human approval. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. “
“Democratic politics will persistently destabilize any Christian-informed vision of the good.”
The open public square seems like a good feedback loop for competing visions of the good. What kind of people does your vision produce? How can one’s vision of the good make others want what is good? What preconditions need to exist in a populace so it can rightly decide/see what is good? Iliberalism tries to do the work for us. Maybe that is what we deserve/need?
the idea that a good isnt imposed upon the people in classical liberalism is false.
the absence of a good is still an imposition, just like if parents raise children with a total absence of religion, there is still a religous formation , children still have religious questions that need be answered.
I think the _tension_ exists here, but the last paragraph seems to reduce it to a flat trade-off that doesn't seem to jive with all historical reality.
For example, during the Civil Rights Movement, did the US become more or less Christian? Did it become more or less democratic? My instincts are that King and others helped us become both more Christian and more democratic.
So maybe this isn't a flat trade-off, but a rare tension that is sometimes overcome, although rarely and with great challenge and cost?
I’m not sure about this particular tension. No doubt there is tension between liberal democracy and the type of faith promoted by Christian nationalists. But from my viewpoint, the faith of the gospels is just grateful to have the freedom and liberty to practice and live out the faith openly. It is not interested in any form of coerced or forced compliance, and really has little interest in politics in general, other than politics that continue to allow and foster a society of liberty to allow people to make free choices. Free choice is truly the only “Creator endowed” right we have as humans. All other rights are a matter of contract between the Government and the Governed.
..and I would say that sadly, the so-called christians that are attempting to get rid of liberalism are in no way reflective of the christianity of Jesus... and I am sure that Muslims and others may say that same about their fundamentalist versions. ..and then comes the discussion of unregulated capitalism that the national "christian" right embrace and that is a destructive force to good values, to mental health, to economic chances for the many in this country...and so it goes.... like the drain that spins downward with swampy water. So maybe, just maybe, we will find that the answer is for Christians to act like Jesus, and give up the money chase for the community approach that takes the teachings of Jesus very seriously, like we see in the Bruderhoff community.
There is little practical difference between
“In liberal democracy, so long as you don't harm your neighbor, you are free to believe anything you want and pursue happiness as you think best.”
and
“For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The one who serves Christ in this way is acceptable to God and has human approval. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. “
wow... as always, your ability to distill complex ideas into digestible coherent information is a masterclass.
“Democratic politics will persistently destabilize any Christian-informed vision of the good.”
The open public square seems like a good feedback loop for competing visions of the good. What kind of people does your vision produce? How can one’s vision of the good make others want what is good? What preconditions need to exist in a populace so it can rightly decide/see what is good? Iliberalism tries to do the work for us. Maybe that is what we deserve/need?
The Church is most free when not in power and, even, when under persecution.
No one in their right mind wants suffering, but Christ’s Bride is never more beautiful or invincible than She is then!
the idea that a good isnt imposed upon the people in classical liberalism is false.
the absence of a good is still an imposition, just like if parents raise children with a total absence of religion, there is still a religous formation , children still have religious questions that need be answered.
I think if modern Christianity were still seen as Good News, it would continue to flourish, as it did during the Roman Empire
Are you seriously suggesting that these options are equally poisonous????